Home > Gay and Lesbian, gay lobby, Homosexuality, Teenagers > It Gets Better – the youth campaign that makes everything worse

It Gets Better – the youth campaign that makes everything worse

August 4th, 2011

by Mary Rice Hasson

How can life get better for sexually confused young people if they cut themselves off from their families and abandon themselves to sex?

For LGBT teens who face adversity and intolerance…There’s no place in society for hatred and bullying…You have an amazing future in front of you…
And an entire community in your corner…We promise you. It gets better
.

(From the It Gets Better video by the San Francisco Giants baseball team.)

What’s not to like about the It Gets Better Project?

After all, bullying is bad. Compassion is good. And who could object to offering hope (to suicidal LGBT youth) and insisting on change (from a hostile, bullying culture)?

Especially when the project Saves Lives.

So what’s not to like? Plenty. For starters, it’s the brainchild of Dan Savage, “America’s leading sex-advice columnist.” (Sample his advice here. Warning: graphic.)

The It Gets Better Project caught the cresting wave of media interest that followed several tragic suicides of gay teens. Savage and his gay partner, Terry Miller, posted a YouTube video with an ostensibly simple message to LGBT youth: hang on, don’t kill yourself, life gets better.

One-and-a-half million hits later, the original YouTube video has become a full-fledged campaign with over 23,000 videos (from LGBT adults, supportive corporations, and celebrities, including President Obama), totaling over 60 million views. To reach students who lack YouTube or Internet access, Savage and Miller chose over 100 testimonies for the book version, It Gets Better: Coming Out, Overcoming Bullying, and Creating a Life Worth Living. Thousands of people have donated copies of the book to local schools or libraries, expanding the reach of the message.

In spite of the project’s spin, it awakens much-needed compassion for adolescents who endure humiliation, physical brutality and extreme loneliness because of their appearance or sexuality. Their pain is real and, for many, the suffering intense and prolonged. Preventing teen suicides is vital work. And we should affirm the essential goodness, value, and lovability of every person.

But that’s not what the project is about.

It Gets Better (IGB) is an agenda-driven campaign that caricatures traditional morality and religious people, drives a wedge between parents and children, and aggressively promotes deviant sex.

In a May 2011 speech to Google employees, and in a July 2011 New York Times interview, Savage brags that the “subversive,” culture-changing goal of the campaign is to “pull an end run around people who are trying to isolate their queer kids from information, from queer adults, [from] the idea that you can be a happy LGBT adult.”

Savage confesses himself “obsessed” by the thought of reaching middle school and high school students with a “sex-positive” message. Driven to share the “joys” of the LGBT lifestyle, Savage already speaks regularly on college campuses, to “undo abstinence education.” He aims now to reach young adolescents—12,13, 14—and those teens whose “bullying“ parents (i.e., religious parents) are least likely to approve of the LGBT lifestyle.

The genius of his approach, using YouTube, Facebook, and the Internet (plus the public schools) is that, “We’re talking to these kids whether their parents want us to or not…they can’t stop us anymore.” Thanks in part to the Google Chrome ad, which aired during the NBA finals, his message has already reached millions of kids. As a result, Savage declared, “you can see LGBT kids getting the support from the online community that they’re not getting at home.” (Savage admits that there’s been no overall rise in LGBT suicides, but rather increased media focus on the issue.)

The It Gets Better project professes to help LGBT young people picture what their lives might be like as openly gay adults.

But what are its real messages?

1. Traditional morality and religious beliefs equal bigotry

2. Families who oppose homosexuality are bullies; the LGBT community is your “family”

3. LGBT means sex—lots of it, your way.

Consequences? What consequences?

Keep reading.

——————————————————————

More reading:

Why Everybody, Including Gays, Should Support Traditional Marriage

“Marriage Equality” Creates Equality for Whom?

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  1. John Noe
    August 4th, 2011 at 21:33 | #1

    Very degrading and disgusting what this Savage guy and the LGBT people are doing to these young people, and it does not get better.

    How are you better off when you engage in deadly, unhealthy, and sickening sexual practices that will result in you getting STD’s and AIDS. Do the It Gets better people have any concern over the health risks and dangers that these youth will face? No. Just engage in this deadly sex and disregard the consequences. If you get AIDS and dies then so what. Another part of this is that we who do not engage in this sex have to pick up the health care tab.

    Here is how it really does get better. Listen to your fine Christian parents who love you so much that in administrating tough love are doing everything they can to not have you become a victim of the homosexual deathstyle. Your parents are not bullies but loving. True love of a child means that the parent has to discipline the child. The Bible teaches us that foolishnesses is tied up in the heart of a child but the rod of discipline corrects him. Proverbs also tells parents that we must reprove our children and teach them right from wrong just as our loving Creator reproves us. The parents are not bullying the child when they speak out against homosexual tendencies but are disciplining them in love. This same parent is overjoyed when their homosexual tendency child repents of his/her homosexual behavior and is back on the right path. Jesus teaches us that broad and wide is the road leading to our destruction but narrow is the road to rightousness.
    Perhaps by bringing the child to reparative therapy they then become ex gay. Now they will have a truly happier and healthier life and now it really does get better.

  2. John Noe
    August 4th, 2011 at 21:36 | #2

    On a sad note, it is really sickening to see Major League Baseball teams getting suckered into this agenda. The S.F. Giants are hurting not helping youth by participating in this perverted and disgusting agenda of Savage and his ilk.
    As a Boston Red Sox fan I was deeply saddened to find out that membors of the Bosox had also participated in this campaign.

  3. August 5th, 2011 at 18:43 | #3

    Actually, you know, if someone wants to tell a kid, “You’re not a unnatural abomination whom God surely wants to have put to death,” I’m okay with that no matter what the parents think.

  4. August 6th, 2011 at 08:07 | #4

    @Rob Tisinai
    I think it’s better to tell them that they have a right to be straight, and that they probably aren’t really gay, and if they feel like quitting and calling themselves straight again, that’s OK, no one will bully them into staying gay.

  5. August 6th, 2011 at 08:44 | #5

    It only makes things worse if you think that encouraging young people with hope for a better future is a bad thing. Which apparently you do. Luckily millions of us do not.

  6. nerdygirl
    August 6th, 2011 at 19:05 | #6

    @John Howard
    But bullying them into acting straight, is not only the right thing but God’s way!

    (Let’s see if this makes it past moderation.)

  7. Anne
    August 6th, 2011 at 19:22 | #7

    @Rob Tisinai
    “You’re not a unnatural abomination whom God surely wants to have put to death,”

    Who are you quoting Rob?

  8. Anne
    August 7th, 2011 at 05:17 | #8

    @nerdygirl
    “But bullying them into acting straight, is not only the right thing but God’s way!

    (Let’s see if this makes it past moderation.)”

    There are a huge range of options between banning bullying against homosexuals and changing the definitiion of marriage and family to accomodate people who choose sterile sex and reversing the bullying to aim it at parents and people of faith.

    That’s not God’s way either.

  9. Paul
    August 7th, 2011 at 08:03 | #9

    I feel really sorry for all the people who don’t see this project for all the good it’s doing.
    It’s letting young, struggling youth know that they’re not alone, that they can be happy in their own skin with their sexuality.
    If “LGBT equals sex” is the only message you got out of this, I feel sorry for you and your obvious sex obsession. On a more serious note, I don’t see how one can watch these videos and see anything that promotes sex. That’s not what it’s about.

    People who are opposed to this campaign still do not understand that
    1) Being gay is not a “lifestyle”, it’s part of your identity
    2) Being gay is not a choice, nor is it “changeable behavior”
    3) LGBT folks are not all sex-obsessed, and that isn’t all they want to do (hence the “lifestyle” business)
    Parents who try to convince their kids that they need to change and that they are sexually immoral are vastly uninformed, and need to look past their “traditional” values for some real parenting advice that can really help their kids.

    I wish you all would stop making out GLBTs to be some kind of collective immoral monster.
    Straight, gay, bi, we love who we love.
    Why should that be something to be ashamed of?

  10. August 7th, 2011 at 08:11 | #10

    Anne, I’ve seen all those descriptors repeatedly from people on this site, and much worse from folks on NOM’s Facebook page.

  11. beatrice
    August 7th, 2011 at 08:13 | #11

    I have watched many of the It’s Get Better videos and I don’t recall any of them mentioning the amount of sex lgbt get. Homosexuality is a natural occuring proclivity that involves attraction to the member of the same sex. It does not imply the amount of sex one will have, if any, in their life time.

  12. Concerned Christian
    August 7th, 2011 at 10:53 | #12

    Please, if you agree with this message, pray to God and ask him to show you the Truth. The Holy Word has been warped and corrupted by Satan himself. He has planted the seeds of evil in the minds of those who have transcribed and translated the Word of God. The Holy Bible was not written in English, but translated many times over the course of the past two thousand years. God Loves All, no matter what their beliefs. He grieves when man is led astray, and He grieves today over the hateful words I have read today. We must Love as true Christians, not condemn. Hatred will not lead them to God, but push them away. It is hatred from our confused brethren which drove them to find comfort in the words It Gets Better. It is hatred which is pushing youth away from the Church. Love will get them back.

  13. David
    August 7th, 2011 at 11:52 | #13

    Being a gay 16-year-old, I must respectfully disagree with the points you have made.

    Let’s take what you perceive to be the “real messages” of the organization:

    “1. Traditional morality and religious beliefs equal bigotry”

    I can not understand how you were able to get this statement from the purpose of the It Gets Better Project. Without expressing how flawed the view that “God hates homosexuals” is, it amazes me how you can think just because a group aims to prevent young suicides in LGBTQ youth that it teaches traditional thinking and religous beliefs are “bad” and equate to bigotry. Rather, it “is a place where young people who are lesbian, gay, bi, or trans can see how love and happiness can be a reality in their future. ” (Source: Itgetsbetter.org, About section) The sole purpose of the website is to tell LGBT youth that just because mainstream media tells us that being gay is bad doesn’t mean we’re doomed to a life of being alone. Killing ourselves because of bullying in school is such as waste, because once we get out of school, it does get better. The website even has religious contributors, showing that just because you’re gay doesn’t mean you don’t have a place in the church and will “burn in hell”.

    In summary, the site does not belittle traditional morality and religious beliefs at all.

    2. Families who oppose homosexuality are bullies; the LGBT community is your “family”

    I can understand your objection to an organization saying that a family can be a “bully” is a negative teaching – families are in most cases the most direct influence on a child’s life and a major source of approval for a large portion of their childhood. Families that do truly bully their children, for whatever reason, are not fundamentally sound families, and have are flawed in another way entirely. However, the IGB group in no way, shape, or form teaches to break away from your family. Also, what I cannot understand, however, is that you can condone the oppression of a gay son or daughter because they are gay. As said previously here in the comments, telling a child that they are an abomondation to God and that God wants to put them to death could not be more damaging. A parent using God as their basis for telling a child they are unloved by a higher power because of how they act is an uninformed parent. Countless studies have been done showing that it is impossible for a person to make a 100% change over to a heterosexual lifestyle. Therefore it is absolutely ridiculous that a parent condems their child for their homosexual feelings and tries force them to change.

    3. LGBT means sex—lots of it, your way.

    Again, I would love to see where exactly you got this “teaching” from the IGB collection of resources. A straight couple that gets married has no group condeming any sexual behaviors they may engage in. So, why would a married gay couple be subject to said scrutiny? The IGB group does not promote pre-marital or promiscuous sex in any fashion, and how you came to the conclusion that it does is a mystery to me.

    In conclusion, I will be watching this page for reply comments, as I would love to hear more justification on how the author came to the conclusions she came to.

    Tell me again why I should strive to be someone who I am not?

  14. Stefanie
    August 7th, 2011 at 15:05 | #14

    JOhn Howard – they have a “right” to be straight? Talk to a gay person – they can try all they like, sleep with as many women as they like, watch as much straight porn, go to as many therapy sessions, date and marry as many hot women as they can… it doesn’t change orientation. Just like if you are straight, no matter how many MEN you sleep with, it probably won’t turn you gay. My best friend is a gay man who spent his entire college career trying to “be straight”. He dated the hottest girls, was masculine and played the “part” of a straight man pretty well. Except he was miserable because he couldn’t be himself. Miserable because he couldn’t date people he was truly attracted to, miserable because no matter HOW HARD HE TRIED he COULDN’T be straight. And then one day he said “screw everyone else, I’m doing what’s best for me” and you know what? All of us – his friends, parents, family – all said hey, that’s great that you’re gay and you can finally be yourself! We wish you told us sooner!

    People like you who perpetuate the lie that gays and and should change are what make life so hard for LGBT youth. Because when they CAN’T change no matter how hard they try, they feel like failures, lke they’ve done something wrong, like they haven’t tried hard enough, because that’s what you, a straight person who has never been gay before, is telling them.

    The It Gets Better campaign is a great thing and as a sports fan, I love that teams are getting involved. It’s great for LGBT youth to see athletes – a culture that is usually very homo-hostile – stand up and support kids who are getting bullied by groups like NOM.

  15. Betsy
    August 7th, 2011 at 15:12 | #15

    Wow, the original article over at Mercatornet.com has 175 comments! What a fire storm!

  16. Sean
    August 7th, 2011 at 15:45 | #16

    The “It Gets Better” campaign is brilliant and needed!

  17. Anne
    August 7th, 2011 at 17:34 | #17

    @Paul
    “I don’t see how one can watch these videos and see anything that promotes sex. That’s not what it’s about.”

    And communism and naziism weren’t about oppression either. They were about saving people from their distress. Until they gained the trust of the people and exposed what they were really about.

    At the end of the day, we can love whomever we want to. This is about sex.

    “Parents who try to convince their kids that they need to change and that they are sexually immoral are vastly uninformed, and need to look past their “traditional” values for some real parenting advice that can really help their kids.”

    I love my children dearly. I would never bully them. But it is out of love for them that I try to direct them away from what will hurt them.

    God does not despise homosexuals. They are His beloved children. But He designed the world in a way that we find fulfillment in following the order of nature which He created. Homosexuality opposes that order. And I know God’s children cannot find fulfillment there. And out of love I will tell them so. As for some organization stepping in to show my children how love and acceptance works, no one loves my children more than me. Except the God who made them.

  18. August 7th, 2011 at 18:25 | #18

    @Stefanie I didn’t say that it is easy for everyone, I just said everyone has a right to be straight. There really shouldn’t be anything to disagree with in that. We should work on making it so kids don’t feel like failures if they don’t feel that girls are as amazing as they think they are supposed to find them, help change the culture so that it doesn’t marginalize kids and scare them into giving up, as though it takes some special skill that they will never possess to be straight. That’s not true, all people have a right to be straight.

  19. Anne
    August 7th, 2011 at 18:56 | #19

    @Rob Tisinai
    I’ve been blogging here for quite a few weeks now and I haven’t seen anything like what you described. I have heard homosexuality referred to as unnatural, perhaps even abominable, but I haven’t seen any person referred to as an “abomination who God wants put to death”.

    There are many people here with strong opinions, but your reference is far more extreme than anything I’ve actually seen here, and could easily undermine the actual discussion.

  20. Paul McMichael
    August 7th, 2011 at 19:13 | #20

    Author, please please, re-read David, 16 gay above. It is full of common sense and is a cogent description of what IGB website REALLY says as opposed to an egregious misleading conflation of IGB material and what Dan Savage says on his own account as a sex advice columnist.

    i.e. IGB project NEVER advocates underage sex as you imply.

  21. Stefanie
    August 7th, 2011 at 20:25 | #21

    John Howard – All kids have a right to be gay then, as well. We should work on making it so kids don’t feel like failures if they don’t like the gender they are “supposed” to like. We should work on accepting the fact that orientation is an immutable, unchangeable essence of a person, like skin color and eye color. We should focus on making sure kids know that whether they are gay or straight, they are normal, and deserve to be happy and loved. Kids deserve to know that straight isn’t a perfection that should be “strived” for. Kids deserve to know that it’s okay to be gay, and that being gay doesn’t mean you can never have a normal, happy life with a normal, happy relationship.

    Changing kids, encouraging kids to attempt to change, or lying to kids to begin with and telling them they CAN and SHOULD change, isn’t a right you should possess. If a kid wants to be a closet case his whole life for the benefit of others around him, that’s his choice. But it is a sad one, because it is so beyond unnecessary. Kids should be taught to strive for the happiest life they can have – and no child will be happy if they are lead to believe that they are “wrong” and should change, when they aren’t and shouldn’t.

    Straight isn’t a “right” I would want. Happiness is.

  22. Stefanie
    August 7th, 2011 at 20:26 | #22

    Anne – most people who describe homosexuality as an “abomination” take that term from the Bible, where in a man who lies with a man (and other abominations) are said to be put to death to please the Lord.

    God’s words, not anyone elses. Not our fault the God and Bible most people choose to cherry pick from wasn’t exactly anti-death penalty like most people like to pretend he was.

  23. David
    August 7th, 2011 at 20:56 | #23

    Those who say gays should be put to death to “please the Lord” should also be killed for eating shellfish, spreading gossip, and the other things the bible condemns to explicitly.

    In all seriousness, we can cherry pick the Bible all day long about whatever you want, and we will find more contradictions than comments on the original article.

    It seems to amaze me the double-standard there is for various troubled groups “helped” by Christian support groups and churches. For example, when a man in a married couple is found to be having an affair with his wife, the couple would go to the church and seek counseling. No one is there to condemn the man to death for what he did. Rather they are there to help and heal. Not the same is to be said about homosexuals, who speak up in their churches and are met with hate. My evidence? Personal experience.

    Also, what I have noticed going on here is something very similar to the Christian groups that were against the Jews and the Blacks and any other group from history persecuted for any reason. In the past, those groups used God and the Bible as their justification. But do we still persecute these groups? No.

  24. August 7th, 2011 at 21:23 | #24

    Anne, I’m happy to correct your misapprehension. Just cut and paste any of the following phrases into Google:

    abomination site:ruthblog.org

    perversion site:ruthblog.org

    depravity site:ruthblog.org

    This is what we’re trying to protect innocent gay teens from. And that’s just on this site.

  25. Stefanie
    August 7th, 2011 at 22:23 | #25

    David – I am by NO means saying gays should be put to death. Anne asked where that’s being said, I’m fiercely pro gay everything. I just found it funny that people tend to use the Bible so much to defend their opposition to equality for LGBT people, yet when people call out the reality of the Bible (that most people who perform abominations like being gay, eating shellfish, etc are supposed to be killed), they seem to go blank on their deeply held religion.

    “Where does it say that??” Um, the Bible. The Bible that you use to justify your bias and bigotry against the LGBT community.

    Trust me, but no means am I siding with it. Just pointing it out to the people who want to ignore the fact that they only follow a little of the Bible.

  26. David
    August 7th, 2011 at 23:11 | #26

    @Rob Tisinai
    So I am a perverted gay teen that should be killed? I own a communications company and make straight-A’s in school. How can you possibly say that I am perverted?

  27. Anne
    August 8th, 2011 at 03:24 | #27

    @Rob Tisinai
    I acknowledged the use of the terms. What you did with them is something all together diffferent than the way they have been used here.

    I did Google abomination. And the second link on the Google page was yours. The other references I saw spoke of the act. Yours is the only one I saw which directed the term at the person (I have seen Sean use similar inflammatory tactics).

    People I love make choices I disagree with all the time. No matter how strongly I disapprove of their actions, I have never refer to a person as an abomination. And I have not seen anyone here refer to a person in the manner you did. I can’t swear it hasn’t happened. But it would be entirely inconsistent with what I’ve seen as the tone here.

    I’m sure there are some people who handle the discussion badly. But the vast majority of people I have seen posting here in support of marriage have argued this matter incredibly civilly.

    Perhaps people on the other side of the argument need to pause and look more closely at what is actually being said.

  28. Anne
    August 8th, 2011 at 06:43 | #28

    @Stefanie
    “…the God and Bible most people choose to cherry pick from….”

    @David
    “….In all seriousness, we can cherry pick the Bible all day long about whatever you want,…”

    I agree with you both. Cherry picking anything but cherries and perhaps people from burning buildings and cats from trees, can create quite a bit of confusion.

    I have seen many people in support of gay marriage “cherry pick” the idea of love as they see it referenced in the Bible. But the truest of all Lovers died alone, nailed to a tree, naked with His arms opened wide. Love is selfless. It has nothing to do with personal fulfillment and sexual desire. True love directs us where we are to go and what we are to do, even when it hurts. Especially when it hurts. True love has a happy ending. But the journey can be quite painful and, if it is true love, is selfless.

    Things in addition to the Bible which should not be “cherry picked”:

    -Words from other people’s comments, taken out of contest, such as ‘abomination’

    -Marriage – as in picking the parts you want like the sex and parenting, and not the part you don’t want which is the selfless sacrifice

  29. Stefanie
    August 8th, 2011 at 10:06 | #29

    Anne-

    At the end of the day, we don’t live in a theocracy. So your version of Christianity and Jesus should have no bearing on the lives of LGBT youth (or adults for that matter). 99% of the LGBT community fights for CIVIL equality, which has nothing to do with the churches, the priests, the ministers, the temples, etc.

    Using Jesus as an excuse to a.) denying equality to LGBT people b.) extend bigotry and discrimination toward LGBT people and c.) hurt or harm the LGBT people emotionally or physically is NOT okay, nor is it civil. You want to believe in your brand of Jesus? By all means, go for it. But don’t expect anyone else to side with you or your opinion of what true love is. I am not a Christian, I do not believe Jesus Christ is savior, and I know what true love is. As do LGBT people.

  30. August 8th, 2011 at 10:08 | #30

    @Stefanie
    They should know that being gay means they won’t be allowed to procreate offspring with someone they love, which is pretty important. They should be taught that they have the same right as everyone to be straight, and that everyone can and should be straight and love someone of the other sex and not have sexual intercourse until they marry.

    It’s like Math: everyone has a right to take algebra and trig and calculus, but not everyone is able to. That doesn’t mean kids who can’t do calculus are failures and should be bullied, or that we should teach kids that if they have trouble with trig, they should not even try, they should take Art or English instead. I think they should still be encouraged to learn math and be as proficient in it as possible, even if it makes them feel bad.

  31. August 8th, 2011 at 10:33 | #31

    Anne, that’s a perfect example of what people call a distinction without a difference, especially in the minds of kids who fear (often with good reason) that they will be kicked out on to the street if their parents discover they’re gay. I’ve done charity/community work supporting efforts to reach out to those kids, find them safe homes to live in, keep them fed, and help them finish high school.

  32. August 8th, 2011 at 11:19 | #32

    @Anne

    Are you seriously comparing the It Gets Better Project to the Nazis?? That’s…. hilarious, actually.

  33. Anne
    August 8th, 2011 at 11:21 | #33

    @Stefanie
    “Using Jesus as an excuse to a.) denying equality to LGBT people b.) extend bigotry and discrimination toward LGBT people and c.) hurt or harm the LGBT people emotionally or physically is NOT okay, nor is it civil. You want to believe in your brand of Jesus? By all means, go for it. But don’t expect anyone else to side with you or your opinion of what true love is. I am not a Christian, I do not believe Jesus Christ is savior, and I know what true love is. As do LGBT people.”

    I didn’t do any of the things you said. I just said that Jesus was a selfless lover. Which He is.

    You are the one who attached what I said to bigotry and discrimination and harming people.

    @Rob Tisinai
    The distinction does make a difference. Stefanie corrupted what I said. She implies and imposes differences and tones which weren’t present. It fuels the fire.

    These kids deserve all the help they can get. God Bless you for your efforts Rob.

    Helping someone is not the same as condoning behaviour. And condoning behaviour isn’t necessarily helping.

  34. Rich
    August 8th, 2011 at 12:08 | #34

    At the end of the day, civil marriage in the United States means marriage for gay couples and straight couples (universal for straight and heading in that direction for gay). No amount of bickering, cherry picking, Bible thumping will/can change that. Remember,
    civil |ˈsivəl|
    adjective
    1 [ attrib. ] of or relating to ordinary citizens and their concerns, as distinct from military or ecclesiastical matters : civil aviation.
    • (of disorder or conflict) occurring between citizens of the same country.
    • Law relating to private relations between members of a community; noncriminal : a civil action.
    • Law of or relating to aspects the civil (or code) law derived from European systems.
    Gay children need our support and encouragement to self-actualize, develop self esteem and be honest and then contribute to society. The It gets Better Project does that. One reward for them can now be a civil marriage should they fall in love with a soul-mate. Another reward is the respect of their nation. Thank you david for your fine assessment of this issue.

  35. Anne
    August 8th, 2011 at 17:25 | #35

    @Rich
    “. Remember,
    civil |ˈsivəl|
    adjective
    1 [ attrib. ] of or relating to ordinary citizens”

    Remember, religious people are ordinary citizens.

    David seems like a fine young man. But at 16, he still has a lot to learn. That’s why 16 year olds are still considered minors and the responsibility of their PARENTS. When outside organizations, encouraged by the state’s version of civil liberty begin imposing on parents relationships with their children, then yes,@Emma , they are behaving like Nazis. If the Germans had recognized the oppressive nature of the Nazis when it first began, they would have stopped it. Oppression almost always comes disguised as “legitimate” revolution.

    This oppressive mentality has become so engrained in our society, that many people here seem to have forgotten that religious freedom is a basic liberty.

  36. Ruth
    August 8th, 2011 at 18:17 | #36

    @Rich
    And when the “self-actualization” down that road turns into dust , they deserve our support as they step towards the Savior.
    “Come to me, all you who are troubled and weighted down with care, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and become like me, for I am gentle and without pride, and you will have rest for your souls; For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

  37. Paul
    August 8th, 2011 at 20:39 | #37

    @Anne
    Why do you persist with these false analogies about the Nazis and Germany?
    Is homosexuality THAT threatening to you that you would liken it to a violent Communist empire?

    In response to your response to Emma, I think that these public “interventions,” so to speak, are very well called for, as sometimes parents don’t realize the harm they are inflicting on their children until after the fact.
    I would go so far as to say that the LGBT community is oppressed. To say the least, really.
    Do you have ANY idea how many adults and kids are beaten to a pulp in some alleyway because of their orientation? It’s sickening, and if you’d do a little research instead of making generalizations based on your perspective, you would see that gays, transsexuals, queers, and people of a perceived orientation are the MOST preyed on minority in the country right now.
    Hmmm…doesn’t that lead a curious mind to think why?

    Well, back to the parenting, it may be well and good that these parents are “protecting” their children (or think they are), and showing them “tough love” (truth sets free, yada yada yada) in the name of God.
    it is worth mentioning that love can blind someone.
    You can have such a love for a person that you do anything you can to “help” them, even if it ends up hurting them.
    It’s unintentional.
    And this is exactly what a lot of parents are doing.
    Unknowingly, through the filter of their faith, they are damaging their children.

    So, there’s just one cause of much of the oppression of GLBTs that ends in the tragic listing of suicides on the national news, or an isolated murder of an innocent soul.
    All in the name of God.
    or out of outright blindness.

    The very reason that we need to be “in your face” with this issue is because it is still not getting the attention it deserves. Just look up gay hate crimes on the Internet, and you’ll be sure to find numerous instances of untelevised incidents, and loads of statistics that show the “oppression” you keep underestimating, Anne.

    Furthermore, in response to your response of MY comment (massive inhale), I will assume that you are quite unfamiliar with the science of sexuality and orientation. It is NOT just about sex. I don’t know why people always put it that way. Heterosexuality implies that you indeed have sex with people of the opposite gender and enjoy it. It also goes to follow that heterosexuals tend to LOVE the opposite sex. As homosexuals, this property is transitive. We love those of the same sex, and also happen to be sexually attracted to them.
    And as I iterated earlier in this comment, I would like to repeat again that yes, your love is unconditional, and I do not doubt the love for your children one bit.
    However, I strongly urge you to have some sympathy.

    Imagine you are a child, with no inherent attraction for the opposite sex.
    Think about how it would feel to hear in church or from your parents, “homosexuality is an abomination. It’s idolatry. It’s a CHOICE.”
    Think about it. How, as a young, developing child, who might have same sex attractions, would that make you feel?

    I’m not saying that these are things you tell your children.
    I’m merely posing a hypothetical.

    As this comment is getting quite lengthy, I choose to ignore your other comments that are definitely calling for a response.

  38. Anne
    August 9th, 2011 at 05:16 | #38

    @Paul
    “Why do you persist with these false analogies about the Nazis and Germany?
    Is homosexuality THAT threatening to you that you would liken it to a violent Communist empire?”

    It isn’t homosexuality that is so threatening Paul. It is the willingness of the State to impose it as a social norm in opposition to the natural law AND the will of the people, while infringing on the natural rights of parents to raise their own children. How do you think Naziism and Communism began?

    “I will assume that you are quite unfamiliar with the science of sexuality and orientation.”

    Oh.

    “It is NOT just about sex………As homosexuals, this property is transitive. We love those of the same sex, and also happen to be sexually attracted to them.”

    Do we ONLY love those of the same sex? If we love people of both sexes, which we all should, then the love is not the dividing factor. It’s the sex.

    “The very reason that we need to be “in your face” with this issue is because it is still not getting the attention it deserves. Just look up gay hate crimes on the Internet, and you’ll be sure to find numerous instances of untelevised incidents, and loads of statistics that show the “oppression” you keep underestimating, Anne.”

    Four of my seven children have attended high school thus far. They are all heterosexual and constantly harassed by their peers for not being willing to “experiment” with their sexuality. Oppression is a two way street, Paul.

    “Do you have ANY idea how many adults and kids are beaten to a pulp in some alleyway because of their orientation?”

    If they’re being “beaten to a pulp in some alleyway”, then it’s not the paretns who’s “FACE YOU NEED TO BE IN”.

    “However, I strongly urge you to have some sympathy.”

    Another assumption Paul?
    EVERYONE is entitled to be treated with dignity. Bullying is appropriately opposed by our society and I support any measure which protects people from such injustice. But protection from bullying is a far cry from imposing minority behaviour on society at large.

    Some people are born Autistic. Sometimes these kids will bang their head repeatedly against a table. We don’t cast them out from society. We embrace them, and we love them and we treat them with dignity. We protect them from bullying. But we don’t go around telling everyone else that banging your head against a table is to be recognized as socially acceptable because, afterall, some people are born inclined to do it.

  39. Bigg
    August 9th, 2011 at 07:36 | #39

    I wonder how all of the people who have said that it’s better to tell gay kids that it’s not okay to be gay would feel if people started suddenly telling their children that it’s not okay to be religious. Personally, I feel that exposing religion’s lies and discrimination would make the world a better place – so I guess I should start a campaign against the religious indoctrination of children.

  40. Betsy
    August 9th, 2011 at 13:50 | #40

    What I’d like to know is, why the line in the sand of “religious” on one side, and gays on the other, as though there is never any overlap.

  41. Regan DuCasse
    August 9th, 2011 at 15:26 | #41

    @John Howard,

    Since when and where is it right or moral to discriminate against someone because they don’t spontaneously procreate?
    It’s the living that can make a contribution, not those who haven’t literally been conceived yet.
    And considering the spectre of threat, coercion and outright dehumanizing of gay people, your assertion that a gay person can choose to be ANYTHING is a lie.
    Why?
    Because one can’t trust something that requires threat, torture and isolation to make happen.
    You’re not considering what it would take you make YOU gay. And it’s not THAT important for gay people to BE hetero. 90% of the population being hetero isn’t enough? 7 BILLION and counting people (most born into poverty and some other problem) isn’t indication that enough procreating is going on?

    Apparently since pathologies like depression and suicide, substance abuse and so on exist among heterosexuals (who don’t have to deal with systemic bigotry and discrimination no matter how much THEY screw up marriages and children), then the smart money would be on the fact that sexual orientation doesn’t have anything to do with pathologies.

    I’ll put my faith in equal treatment and justice under the law. I’ll trust the legacies of the same. It’s empathy from where the most ethical and moral decisions and actions flow, not how many ways you can rationalize an injustice against someone for being DIFFERENT.
    Indeed, that WAS a directive from Christ for that reason.
    If you were truly following such a teaching, you would consider what it would take to make YOU gay, and forget about forcing gay people to be straight.
    But if it takes so much courage to even THINK that, then nobody has time for you to get it together.
    I don’t believe in a God you make the equivalent of an abusive parent, but the God who has created all kinds of us, and other things, diverse and variant and varied. I don’t question the love of variance and uniqueness among our species. I WILL question the evil of man made hierarchies to do harm to those they consider weaker.

    And the RESULTS of equal treatment, fairness and consideration speak for themselves.
    And the mistreatment of gay people, the libel and teaching to distrust and fear them, speaks for itself also.
    There have been no positive results to point in regarding that. Eleven year olds are tormented by anti gay sentiment to commit suicide. Eleven year olds who weren’t even necessarily gay.

    I don’t share (and neither should anyone else) your fear, ignorance and arrogant stupidity and supremacist values. Nor should your simplistic and unrealistic designs for another person’s life that doesn’t and won’t affect the quality of YOUR life. They have no place in civil society or civil law.

  42. Kevin
    August 9th, 2011 at 15:28 | #42

    @John Noe
    “How are you better off when you engage in deadly, unhealthy, and sickening sexual practices that will result in you getting STD’s and AIDS.”

    Really? Last time I checked, ANY kind of sexual activity can lead to the spread of STD’s. Not just gay sex. Straight sex, too. NOBODY is immune to those diseases.

  43. Regan DuCasse
    August 9th, 2011 at 15:34 | #43

    Anne,
    DEFINE imposition of gay people on YOU. What a selfish thing to say. The entire subject relates to heteros IMPOSING themselves on gay people, no matter how exemplary, contributing, responsible and compassionate that gay person IS.
    What DIFFERENCE does it make if those contributions, responsibility or compassion come from BOTH gay and hetero people when the RESULTS are the same?
    No one, has answered this very simple question that a morally ethical person EASILY can.

    Why are gay people punished for accomplishing what hetero people are applauded for?
    If they are taking a slightly different path, but to the same objective, then what’s the difference if the results of what they DO are the same?

    You’re so free with your opinion, go for it.
    And btw, I work in a Holocaust archive and anti hate educational center in Los Angeles.
    It’s one of those questions of moral ethics that needs to be asked and deserves an answer.

    Your turn. I just about DARE you.

  44. August 9th, 2011 at 15:40 | #44

    Betsy, I’d like to know that, too. Mostly, though I see it from opponents of same-sex marriage, like when John Noe recently said practicing gays cannot be Christians.

    As for me, my first action as an activist was after Prop 8 passed, and I organized a candlelight vigil/food drive. We got invaluable support from the local United Methodist Church and the food went to a nearby faith-based food bank. I’ve gotten meet and work with a good many gay Christians.

  45. August 9th, 2011 at 15:43 | #45

    Anne: “Do we ONLY love those of the same sex? If we love people of both sexes, which we all should, then the love is not the dividing factor. It’s the sex.”

    No — it’s the nature of that love. Surely you don’t love your husband in the same way you love your child, your parent, or you best friend. We use the same word “love” for all those feelings, but that one word “love” has many many meanings. That’s why we so often have to put adjectives in front of it in order to make our meaning clear, adjectives like romantic, maternal, brotherly, platonic, etc.

  46. August 9th, 2011 at 15:44 | #46

    John Noe, I don’t engage in sexual practices I find sickening.

  47. Anne
    August 9th, 2011 at 18:09 | #47

    @Bigg
    “Personally, I feel that exposing religion’s lies and discrimination would make the world a better place – so I guess I should start a campaign against the religious indoctrination of children.”

    You’re too late Bigg. It’s already been done. All reference to religion has been driven out of schools. And now it’s being replaced with the homosexual agenda. The problem is, the one protected by the Constitution is the one which has been suppressed.

  48. Anne
    August 9th, 2011 at 18:12 | #48

    @Rob Tisinai
    “No — it’s the nature of that love. Surely you don’t love your husband in the same way you love your child, your parent, or you best friend. We use the same word “love” for all those feelings, but that one word “love” has many many meanings. That’s why we so often have to put adjectives in front of it in order to make our meaning clear, adjectives like romantic, maternal, brotherly, platonic, etc.”

    My point exactly Rob. Paul said homosexuality isn’t about the sex. There are many different natures of love. Only one involves sex. Sex is what distinguishes homosexuality. It is about the sex.

  49. Sean
    August 9th, 2011 at 18:58 | #49

    “It isn’t homosexuality that is so threatening Paul. It is the willingness of the State to impose it as a social norm in opposition to the natural law AND the will of the people, while infringing on the natural rights of parents to raise their own children.”

    What is being imposed on you, Anne? Just like divorce is legal, and you don’t have to get a divorce, when same-sex marriage is legal, you don’t have to marry a same-sex person. The people do not get to make laws that are unconstitutional, no matter how much they dislike a minority. And no parent is being denied the right to raise his or her child.

    Since these were your stated concerns, can we count on your support from now on for legalizing equal marriage rights for gay couples, that straight couples already get?

  50. Paul
    August 9th, 2011 at 19:27 | #50

    @Rob Tisinai
    And apparently these simple differences have to be SPELLED out to people because it’s not quite obvious enough. *sigh*
    Mind you, I’m not trying to be rude, Anne, but again, your comparisons just do not apply.

    “It isn’t homosexuality that is so threatening Paul. It is the willingness of the State to impose it as a social norm in opposition to the natural law AND the will of the people, while infringing on the natural rights of parents to raise their own children. How do you think Naziism and Communism began?”
    Maybe it’s being “imposed” as a social norm because gays are normal and a part of society too!
    It’s probably a lost cause for me to mention this, but um, based on many recent polls about marriage equality, I would assume that now the majority of the “will” of the people is that gays receive recognition of their humanity just as heterosexuals do.
    And what “natural” law are you speaking of? The one from the Bible?
    Because the Bible is not the source of legislation and government in this country.
    Move somewhere else if that doesn’t satisfy you.
    Otherwise, look to nature and you’ll see that homosexuality is naturally occurring in thousands of animal species.
    how’s that for “natural law,” hmmm?
    And if you see youtube videos as “infringing” on your parental rights, you might as well get rid of your television, internet, and phone…well, you might as well stay at home because media influence is unavoidable in the outside world.
    You can’t say it’s infringing on YOUR parental rights if it’s aimed at the general public, and considering you don’t see mobs of angry parents protesting GLSEN and GLAAD everyday for so-called “interventions” on their parenting.

    “Four of my seven children have attended high school thus far. They are all heterosexual and constantly harassed by their peers for not being willing to “experiment” with their sexuality. Oppression is a two way street, Paul”

    So offering a kid offering a cigarette to your children would also count as “oppression” in your eyes?
    Yeah, silly comparison, I know, I’m just playing off of what you’ve given me.

    “Some people are born Autistic. Sometimes these kids will bang their head repeatedly against a table. We don’t cast them out from society. We embrace them, and we love them and we treat them with dignity. We protect them from bullying. But we don’t go around telling everyone else that banging your head against a table is to be recognized as socially acceptable because, afterall, some people are born inclined to do it.”

    First of all, gays are not mentally impaired. Nor are they disabled. Nor do they “acquire” it by banging their head against a table, or by “experimentation”.
    And the fact that you would liken it to a mental ailment is just insulting.

    “born inclined to it”
    So I suppose you’re also “born inclined” to be attracted to men, as I would assume you are, and “born inclined” to want to have a relationship with a man?
    Nobody has to go around telling people that heterosexuality is okay to do, because no one has to! It’s innate, it’s in your behavior, it’s your attraction, it’s your identity, it’s what you DO.
    This is the same for homosexuals.
    Nobody “converts” people to homosexual.
    You can have all the sex you want with a person of the same-sex, but that doesn’t mean you’ll enjoy it.
    Some people do, and some people don’t.
    You can’t control that, nor can you change it.

    “EVERYONE is entitled to be treated with dignity. Bullying is appropriately opposed by our society and I support any measure which protects people from such injustice. But protection from bullying is a far cry from imposing minority behaviour on society at large.”

    Again, WHERE are you getting the idea that people are being “forced” into being gay?
    There may very well be “pressure” on your kids to experiment, but that doesn’t mean they have to.
    And even if they did, that doesn’t guarantee they’ll SUDDENLY (or slowly turn out to) be homosexual.
    Because it doesn’t happen that way.
    They don’t like it, then they don’t like it. Simple as that!

  51. John Noe
    August 9th, 2011 at 22:03 | #51

    The poster at post #41 is like any other homosexual in denial. The health risks of homosexual sex are real. Go to YouTube and watch the video “Dangers of the Gay Lifestyle” and then read the information on the CDC website for yourself.
    Heterosexuals only get these STD’s when they engage in anal sex and with multiple partners. In other words if they practice homosexual sex while supposedly not homosexual.

  52. John Noe
    August 9th, 2011 at 22:05 | #52

    Again just for the record there is no such thing as a gay Christian. A true Christian follows the teachings of his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He knows homosexuality displeases his Creater, so he repents of it.

    These phony gay Christians will get what is coming to them when they die and it is judgement day.

  53. August 9th, 2011 at 22:29 | #53

    Anne: “Sex is what distinguishes homosexuality. It is about the sex.”

    It’s partly about sex, just as for heterosexuals. And it’s partly about whom one is romantically attracted to, just as for heterosexuals.

  54. Anne
    August 10th, 2011 at 04:29 | #54

    @Paul
    “First of all, gays are not mentally impaired. And the fact that you would liken it to a mental ailment is just insulting.”

    Why? Is identifying an autistic person as autistic insulting?

    “And what “natural” law are you speaking of? The one from the Bible?
    Because the Bible is not the source of legislation and government in this country.”

    No, I’m speaking of the law of nature that says that only a male and a female human being together can produce new life which is dependent on it’s parents.

    While the Bible certainly references the natrual law, the law exists independent of the Bible. Attaching my comment to the Bible for the purpose of dismissing it from social and legal consideration is disingenuous.

  55. Kevin
    August 10th, 2011 at 12:26 | #55

    @John Noe
    I would like you to show me ONE shred of factual evidence that supports your claim that “Heterosexuals only get these STD’s when they engage in anal sex and with multiple partners.”

    Truth is, you can’t.

    I just can’t comprehend how you think this is true. My mind is absolutely blown.

  56. Betsy
    August 10th, 2011 at 13:14 | #56

    John, I hate to disagree with you, but by your definition, no one is a Christian. Fornicators, adulterers, we’re all sinners, Christian or no. Every day we sin, often knowing it displeases God. So who can call himself a Christian?

    It is not for us to judge souls on judgment day, or decide where they should go. That’s God’s job alone. His mercy is unfathomable. We have no idea where people will end up.

  57. August 10th, 2011 at 13:25 | #57

    Anne: “Is identifying an autistic person as autistic insulting?”

    No. But it is insulting to impute a mental handicap to someone who does not suffer a mental handicap.

  58. Sean
    August 10th, 2011 at 17:02 | #58

    “I’m speaking of the law of nature that says that only a male and a female human being together can produce new life which is dependent on it’s parents.”

    Is anyone saying differently? What does same-sex marriage have to do with different-sex reproduction? I’m struggling to see how banning the former has anything to do with the latter. Any clues for me?

  59. Anne
    August 11th, 2011 at 07:06 | #59

    @Rob Tisinai
    “No. But it is insulting to impute a mental handicap to someone who does not suffer a mental handicap.”

    That’s only if you consider mental handcaps insulting.

    If you have blue eyes and I say your eyes are brown, you would simply acknowledge the distinction. You would have no cause to be insulted.

  60. Anne
    August 11th, 2011 at 07:25 | #60

    @Paul
    “look to nature and you’ll see that homosexuality is naturally occurring in thousands of animal species.”

    Yes, and they are all sterile.

    “how’s that for “natural law,” hmmm?”

    Insignificant and pointless.

    “Nor do they “acquire” it by banging their head against a table,”

    Thanks for the information. (I didn’t suggest otherwise.)

    “Again, WHERE are you getting the idea that people are being “forced” into being gay?”

    Something else I didn’t say.

    “Mind you, I’m not trying to be rude, Anne, but again, your comparisons just do not apply.”

    Perhaps you might consider what I actaully say before determining that my “comparisons just don’t apply”.

  61. Anne
    August 11th, 2011 at 07:41 | #61

    @Paul
    “It’s probably a lost cause for me to mention this, but um, based on many recent polls about marriage equality, I would assume that now the majority of the “will” of the people is that gays receive recognition of their humanity just as heterosexuals do.”

    Assume as you like. New York State Governor Andrew Coumo knew better than to take the poll.

  62. August 11th, 2011 at 10:42 | #62

    Anne: Really? If your child’s teacher were (incorrectly) telling people your child had a mental handicap, you would feel no more indignation than if the teacher got your child’s eye color wrong?

  63. Anne
    August 11th, 2011 at 18:03 | #63

    @Rob Tisinai

    Do you know any mentally handicapped children Rob? They have no guile in them. If someone mistook my child for one of those most gentle souls, I might actually be flattered by it.

    In any event, the original comment was taken entirely out of context. The point was that a natural inclination to a particular behaviour does not dictate that the behaviour should be adopted as a social norm. There is no moral judgement. Just an observation that a particular behaviour is not a function of the natural order simply because it is present.

  64. Paul
    August 11th, 2011 at 19:14 | #64

    @Anne

    “Yes, and they are all sterile”

    Well, last time I checked, gays and lesbians in committed relationships can reproduce through sperm donation/surrogacy and artificial insemination (respectively), so they can’t be sterile.
    Heterosexual couples aren’t required to reproduce, and some of them can’t because of impotency.
    And some just don’t end up having children of their own volition.
    Why does being sexually potent or the ability to produce children matter when it comes to love?

    “Thanks for the information. (I didn’t suggest otherwise.)”
    “Something else I didn’t say.”

    My, my, how misleading you are.

    -”Four of my seven children have attended high school thus far. They are all heterosexual and constantly harassed by their peers for not being willing to “experiment” with their sexuality. Oppression is a two way street, Paul.”
    -”It is the willingness of the State to impose it as a social norm in opposition to the natural law AND the will of the people, while infringing on the natural rights of parents to raise their own children. How do you think Naziism and Communism began?”
    “But protection from bullying is a far cry from imposing minority behaviour on society at large.”

    Yeah, something you didn’t SAY, but something that is certainly IMPLIED.
    Why would you mention your children’s “oppression” if you didn’t think that homosexuality is being coerced upon society?
    I’m wrong to assume with you Anne, as I have learned. However, if someone were to read that statement, the connotation would be that you believe that there’s certain pressure on your kids to be gay (or experiment, whatever).

    But don’t get me wrong, I’m so glad you don’t think gays bang their heads upon surfaces to become the way they are!
    Then again, you did say that “minority behavior” is being “imposed” on society, right?
    And slamming noggins against tables is behavior, isn’t it?
    And last time I checked, homosexuality is a complex compilation of behavior, attraction, and identity.
    You can ACT gay, but that doesn’t MAKE you gay.
    Just a distinction that had to be made considering I don’t know where you’re coming from, and what you really believe, since you tend to jump around rather frequently.

  65. Anne
    August 11th, 2011 at 20:40 | #65

    @Paul
    “Well, last time I checked, gays and lesbians in committed relationships can reproduce”

    No, they CAN’T reproduce, which is why they MUST use:

    “sperm donation/surrogacy and artificial insemination (respectively), so they can’t be sterile.”

    …BECAUSE they are sterile.
    Children are “artificially” produced and then raised in “artificial” family environments.

    “My, my, how misleading you are.”

    I said: “Just because autistic children are naturally inclined to bang their heads on tables doesn’t mean that head banging should be considered a social norm.”
    You said: “People don’t become gay by banging their heads on tables”

    You said: “Homosexuals are bullied.”
    I said: “My children are bullied too.”
    You said: “You IMPLIED that homosexuality is being coerced on society.”

    I’m not the one misleading anyone. I much prefer to state my position plainly. Truth is by far the best form for debate.

    “Why would you mention your children’s “oppression” if you didn’t think that homosexuality is being coerced upon society?”

    I mentioned it in specific response to your contention that homosexuals are bullied and that you needed to be “IN MY FACE” to protect them. You took my comment out of context.

    “I’m wrong to assume with you Anne, as I have learned. However, if someone were to read that statement, the connotation would be that you believe that there’s certain pressure on your kids to be gay (or experiment, whatever).”

    As I suggested Paul, perhaps you should read my comments more carefully and consider the context before you respond. I do have a concern about the homosexual agenda. It isn’t about people pressuring my kids to “be gay”.

    Please read this carefully, lest you feel deceived: I am vehemently opposed to children being taught a lie that specific gendered parents are irrelevant to families.

    Feel free to ask for clarification if you are unsure of any of my comments. Please refrain from inferring anything I haven’t actually said and from any further accusations of subversive intent.

  66. August 11th, 2011 at 23:17 | #66

    Anne: “Children are “artificially” produced and then raised in “artificial” family environments.”

    For a split second I really wanted to see you go up to a five-year-old child of same sex parents and say, “Honey, you were artificially produced and live in an artificial family.”

    But then I saw it clearly, and saw it for the awful thing it would be.

  67. Anne
    August 13th, 2011 at 05:16 | #67

    @Rob Tisinai
    “For a split second I really wanted to see you go up to a five-year-old child of same sex parents and say, “Honey, you were artificially produced and live in an artificial family.”

    But then I saw it clearly, and saw it for the awful thing it would be.”

    It is awful. But saying it out loud isn’t what makes it so ugly. I’m not the one who came up with the concept or the term “artifical insemination”. And I’m not the one taking children from their parents to give them to people who can’t conceive them. If you find it so awful, you might stop advocating for it.

  68. Paul
    August 13th, 2011 at 09:25 | #68

    @Anne
    “I do have a concern about the homosexual agenda. It isn’t about people pressuring my kids to ‘be gay’.”

    Then what is it about? I’m really curious to know what you think.

    “I am vehemently opposed to children being taught a lie that specific gendered parents are irrelevant to families.”

    Please point out to me exactly where and how you are getting this message.

    Just as a little aside, who are you to decide that any other parental composition is not good enough for children?
    Posing that question probably makes me sound like an idiot.
    I mean, as a person who is lucky enough to have a mom and a dad who never went through any significant relational turbulence, I have definitely seen the benefits of having a stable family with two great parental figures who led by example and always helped me along my way, even when I had my weak moments.
    And I know that it’s hard to imagine life any differently having grown up a certain way, but I have the strongest conviction in my heart that I still would have became who I am (I’m speaking in general terms) and would not have looked back at “what could’ve been”.
    And I understand that not everyone thinks the way I do, but at least in my mind, a child who only ever grew up in a certain parental environment wouldn’t have doubts as to why, or hunger for different circumstances.
    They would be appreciative of the parents that they do have.
    As a matter of fact, one of my better female friends has two mothers. Though the parents are divorced, they still care about their child very much. I have seen how they behave around her, and how she reciprocates that love and care.
    I have asked her about how she feels about her, erm, “non-traditional” family.
    I’m not going to sugarcoat things, because nobody’s life is perfect. But overall, she has spoken very well of her parents. And I believe her. I look into her eyes and see the maturation that has taken place. She is a wonderful, friendly, talented, well-adjusted human being, and despite the ripples of divorce, she has stood by both her moms, and is just one of the hundreds of thousands of testaments to the good that still can come out of “non-traditional” parenting.

    Now, I don’t expect you to consider what I have just written.
    But just think about what you said about “artificial families”.
    And think about how big an insult this would be to all the same-sex couples, as well as the children they have “artificially” produced.
    The vast majority of children that end up just fine, just as their peers who grew up in “traditional” households.
    No one is saying that different-gendered parents are inferior.
    Just that same-sex parents are capable of raising children just as effectively as their different-sex counterparts.

  69. Paul
    August 13th, 2011 at 20:19 | #69

    also, to think of same-sex coupled families as artificial totally misses the point that they are, first and foremost, real families.
    To call a heterosexual relationship in which the man was sterile and the woman had to be artificially inpregnated “artificial” would also miss the mark in terms of them still being, well, a family.
    Same goes with adoption.
    You can call it artificial, but a family is a family.

  70. Anne
    August 17th, 2011 at 19:52 | #70

    @Paul
    “Now, I don’t expect you to consider what I have just written.”

    Then please refrain from addressing comments to me.

Comments are closed.