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	<title>Comments for Ruth Institute Blog</title>
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	<link>http://www.ruthblog.org</link>
	<description>An intellectual climate favorable to marriage</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:15:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on We&#8217;ll never end our teenage pregnancy epidemic until we admit what&#8217;s REALLY causing it by Wintery Knight</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/10/well-never-end-our-teenage-pregnancy-epidemic-until-we-admit-whats-really-causing-it/comment-page-1/#comment-1276</link>
		<dc:creator>Wintery Knight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:15:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1799#comment-1276</guid>
		<description>Betsy, I disagree with you, I don&#039;t think that more sex education is the solution. :-P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Betsy, I disagree with you, I don&#8217;t think that more sex education is the solution. <img src='http://www.ruthblog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':-P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Weak Tea or Strong Tea? by Wintery Knight</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/10/weak-tea-or-strong-tea/comment-page-1/#comment-1275</link>
		<dc:creator>Wintery Knight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1810#comment-1275</guid>
		<description>This isn&#039;t the first time that Brooks has been linked with snobbery. It&#039;s the beltway media thing. Cocktail parties, etc.

See:
 The educated class believes in global warming, so public skepticism about global warming is on the rise. The educated class supports abortion rights, so public opinion is shifting against them. The educated class supports gun control, so opposition to gun control is mounting.

The story is the same in foreign affairs. The educated class is internationalist, so isolationist sentiment is now at an all-time high, according to a Pew Research Center survey. The educated class believes in multilateral action, so the number of Americans who believe we should “go our own way” has risen sharply.


Source:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/05/opinion/05brooks.html?ref=opinion

All the Tea Party people are uneducated, according to Brooks. What a loser. You know whose showing some conservatism these days? George Will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn&#8217;t the first time that Brooks has been linked with snobbery. It&#8217;s the beltway media thing. Cocktail parties, etc.</p>
<p>See:<br />
 The educated class believes in global warming, so public skepticism about global warming is on the rise. The educated class supports abortion rights, so public opinion is shifting against them. The educated class supports gun control, so opposition to gun control is mounting.</p>
<p>The story is the same in foreign affairs. The educated class is internationalist, so isolationist sentiment is now at an all-time high, according to a Pew Research Center survey. The educated class believes in multilateral action, so the number of Americans who believe we should “go our own way” has risen sharply.</p>
<p>Source:<br />
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/05/opinion/05brooks.html?ref=opinion" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/05/opinion/05brooks.html?ref=opinion</a></p>
<p>All the Tea Party people are uneducated, according to Brooks. What a loser. You know whose showing some conservatism these days? George Will.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are you really better off, Gay America? by nerdygirl</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/03/are-you-really-better-off-gay-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1274</link>
		<dc:creator>nerdygirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1732#comment-1274</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t consider any child with a loving parent deprived. If a child has a loving mother or father, they are not deprived. No matter what tradition says. 

Do you actually know any lesbians? Do you actually know any children raised in non-traditional households? Do you have any idea what life is like for someone else?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t consider any child with a loving parent deprived. If a child has a loving mother or father, they are not deprived. No matter what tradition says. </p>
<p>Do you actually know any lesbians? Do you actually know any children raised in non-traditional households? Do you have any idea what life is like for someone else?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Civil Rights and The Sexual Revolution by Kevin J Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/10/civil-rights-and-the-sexual-revolution/comment-page-1/#comment-1273</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin J Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 01:14:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1805#comment-1273</guid>
		<description>How connected are the civil rights &amp; sexual revolutions? Cynical Southern segregationists added &quot;sex&quot; as a protected class to the 1964 Civil Rights Act, thinking it would require changes so revolutionary that it would doom the legislation. They were wrong about the bill&#039;s doom.

But did they rightly predict the revolutionary effects of federal anti-sexism?

&quot;Sexism&quot; and traditional sex roles were lumped in with racism, and often suppressed by law. The pattern has continued today with SSM.

(How did your pastor friend answer the question?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How connected are the civil rights &amp; sexual revolutions? Cynical Southern segregationists added &#8220;sex&#8221; as a protected class to the 1964 Civil Rights Act, thinking it would require changes so revolutionary that it would doom the legislation. They were wrong about the bill&#8217;s doom.</p>
<p>But did they rightly predict the revolutionary effects of federal anti-sexism?</p>
<p>&#8220;Sexism&#8221; and traditional sex roles were lumped in with racism, and often suppressed by law. The pattern has continued today with SSM.</p>
<p>(How did your pastor friend answer the question?)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are you really better off, Gay America? by Marty</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/03/are-you-really-better-off-gay-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1272</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1732#comment-1272</guid>
		<description>So you&#039;re saying yes -- it&#039;s perfectly acceptable to deprive a child of a (likely, perfectly acceptable) father, for any reason at all.  Including Mommy&#039;s disdain for men.

Nice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you&#8217;re saying yes &#8212; it&#8217;s perfectly acceptable to deprive a child of a (likely, perfectly acceptable) father, for any reason at all.  Including Mommy&#8217;s disdain for men.</p>
<p>Nice.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are you really better off, Gay America? by nerdygirl</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/03/are-you-really-better-off-gay-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1269</link>
		<dc:creator>nerdygirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1732#comment-1269</guid>
		<description>My father cheated himself out of fatherhood.  I was lucky enough to have an excellent step-father later in life, but I assure you some of the best lessons learned were from my single-mother. Sometimes biological parents are just unfit, and it kinda sucks to hear it touted just how damn fantastic they&#039;re supposed to be and how life just isn&#039;t good enough for a kid without them.  I don&#039;t see how having a single mother whose a lesbian would be any different then a single mother whose heterosexual, other of course then other people making fun of the child for it. (and thats not the mothers fault)  Like I said in my last post, it&#039;s not WHO raises a child, it&#039;s HOW the child is raised.  A child raised in a single household with love and attention will have a better chance at life then a child from a traditional two parent household with disinterest and distance.  Whatsmore, just because mommy doesn&#039;t like boys doesn&#039;t mean there isn&#039;t a father or father figure in the childs life, and there&#039;s a difference between mommy being a lesbian (and possibly having two mommies) and mommy being a man-hater. A child needs a parent, mother or father, as long as there is love and communication, it will work out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My father cheated himself out of fatherhood.  I was lucky enough to have an excellent step-father later in life, but I assure you some of the best lessons learned were from my single-mother. Sometimes biological parents are just unfit, and it kinda sucks to hear it touted just how damn fantastic they&#8217;re supposed to be and how life just isn&#8217;t good enough for a kid without them.  I don&#8217;t see how having a single mother whose a lesbian would be any different then a single mother whose heterosexual, other of course then other people making fun of the child for it. (and thats not the mothers fault)  Like I said in my last post, it&#8217;s not WHO raises a child, it&#8217;s HOW the child is raised.  A child raised in a single household with love and attention will have a better chance at life then a child from a traditional two parent household with disinterest and distance.  Whatsmore, just because mommy doesn&#8217;t like boys doesn&#8217;t mean there isn&#8217;t a father or father figure in the childs life, and there&#8217;s a difference between mommy being a lesbian (and possibly having two mommies) and mommy being a man-hater. A child needs a parent, mother or father, as long as there is love and communication, it will work out.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Men filing more sexual harassment complaints by Betsy</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/08/men-filing-more-sexual-harassment-complaints/comment-page-1/#comment-1265</link>
		<dc:creator>Betsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 20:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1773#comment-1265</guid>
		<description>Wow, Kevin. Crazy. Thanks for sharing.
What is the world coming to?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, Kevin. Crazy. Thanks for sharing.<br />
What is the world coming to?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are you really better off, Gay America? by Marty</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/03/are-you-really-better-off-gay-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1260</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 16:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1732#comment-1260</guid>
		<description>Nerdy, you are no less of a person because your father wasn&#039;t around, but the fact that he wasn&#039;t around when he should have been is tragic.  Either by fault or by accident, you were cheated out of a Dad.

I can only think of a few ways a kid can grow up without a father, and they are all tragic.

Is &quot;because mommy doesn&#039;t like boys&quot; an exception?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nerdy, you are no less of a person because your father wasn&#8217;t around, but the fact that he wasn&#8217;t around when he should have been is tragic.  Either by fault or by accident, you were cheated out of a Dad.</p>
<p>I can only think of a few ways a kid can grow up without a father, and they are all tragic.</p>
<p>Is &#8220;because mommy doesn&#8217;t like boys&#8221; an exception?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Men filing more sexual harassment complaints by Kevin J Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/08/men-filing-more-sexual-harassment-complaints/comment-page-1/#comment-1259</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin J Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 16:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1773#comment-1259</guid>
		<description>On second thought, this increase could be due to an increase in caddish actions like sending a co-worker pornography via e-mail or engaging in homosexual banter or mock actions even if the offender is technically heterosexual.

As pornography and homosexuality have been normalized, so has talking about it. Men who once would have been ashamed to know the details of such obscene acs are now shameless in joking about it or simulating it as a kind of horseplay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On second thought, this increase could be due to an increase in caddish actions like sending a co-worker pornography via e-mail or engaging in homosexual banter or mock actions even if the offender is technically heterosexual.</p>
<p>As pornography and homosexuality have been normalized, so has talking about it. Men who once would have been ashamed to know the details of such obscene acs are now shameless in joking about it or simulating it as a kind of horseplay.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are you really better off, Gay America? by Leo</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/03/are-you-really-better-off-gay-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1258</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 14:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1732#comment-1258</guid>
		<description>Let me explain myself, and I think you will find we are in agreement.  By stay out of the religion business it should neither establish religion nor prohibit the free exercise thereof.  I think we are in complete agreement there.  

By stay out of the love business I mean that love, as a thought or an emotion, is not (like religion, conscience and belief) the proper sphere of government regulation.  Actions, however, like prostitution, are an entirely different matter and can be legitimately regulated.   We should not confuse “love” with the sex trade.  I think we are in agreement there.

My point on both religion and love is that die Gedanken sind frei (thoughts are free) at least as far as government is concerned.    We should not have thought crimes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me explain myself, and I think you will find we are in agreement.  By stay out of the religion business it should neither establish religion nor prohibit the free exercise thereof.  I think we are in complete agreement there.  </p>
<p>By stay out of the love business I mean that love, as a thought or an emotion, is not (like religion, conscience and belief) the proper sphere of government regulation.  Actions, however, like prostitution, are an entirely different matter and can be legitimately regulated.   We should not confuse “love” with the sex trade.  I think we are in agreement there.</p>
<p>My point on both religion and love is that die Gedanken sind frei (thoughts are free) at least as far as government is concerned.    We should not have thought crimes.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Men filing more sexual harassment complaints by Kevin J Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/08/men-filing-more-sexual-harassment-complaints/comment-page-1/#comment-1257</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin J Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 07:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1773#comment-1257</guid>
		<description>Men who reject such sexual advances can now be accused of homophobia. One internet commenter from New England claimed a man refused a lipkiss from his male superior and was fired on grounds of alleged bigotry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Men who reject such sexual advances can now be accused of homophobia. One internet commenter from New England claimed a man refused a lipkiss from his male superior and was fired on grounds of alleged bigotry.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are you really better off, Gay America? by Karen Grube</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/03/are-you-really-better-off-gay-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1256</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Grube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 19:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1732#comment-1256</guid>
		<description>Sorry, Leo, but you&#039;re wrong on both counts.  Government, while it should absolutely not also be the head of a religion, as in the Church of England, it should absolutely guarantee the free expression and exercise of religion.  In that sense, is shouldn&#039;t &quot;stay out of the religion business.&quot;  It is also appropriate for government to acknowledge the historical influence that religion has had on its laws and on the establishment of its government.  But when you say government should stay out of the love business, I&#039;m really unclear about what you mean.  If you mean sex, it is completely appropriate for government to prohibit say, prostitution or the exploitation of children because they are, well, exploitative.  So, clarify your point a bit, please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Leo, but you&#8217;re wrong on both counts.  Government, while it should absolutely not also be the head of a religion, as in the Church of England, it should absolutely guarantee the free expression and exercise of religion.  In that sense, is shouldn&#8217;t &#8220;stay out of the religion business.&#8221;  It is also appropriate for government to acknowledge the historical influence that religion has had on its laws and on the establishment of its government.  But when you say government should stay out of the love business, I&#8217;m really unclear about what you mean.  If you mean sex, it is completely appropriate for government to prohibit say, prostitution or the exploitation of children because they are, well, exploitative.  So, clarify your point a bit, please.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Language Control is thought control by Noelle</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/05/language-control-is-thought-control/comment-page-1/#comment-1255</link>
		<dc:creator>Noelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 15:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1748#comment-1255</guid>
		<description>I agree about the power of proscribed language to influence thought. Another example is the generalization and overuse of the term &quot;homophobia.&quot; Is the simple belief that children deserve a mother and father a sign of irrational, obsessive fear and hatred of gay people? In such a brief span of time, especially since the passage of Prop 8, this reflexive branding of all one&#039;s opponents in public policy disputes as &quot;homophobic&quot; really saddens me. Did anyone notice yesterday&#039;s NYT ethicist column? http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/magazine/07FOB-ethicist-t.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree about the power of proscribed language to influence thought. Another example is the generalization and overuse of the term &#8220;homophobia.&#8221; Is the simple belief that children deserve a mother and father a sign of irrational, obsessive fear and hatred of gay people? In such a brief span of time, especially since the passage of Prop 8, this reflexive branding of all one&#8217;s opponents in public policy disputes as &#8220;homophobic&#8221; really saddens me. Did anyone notice yesterday&#8217;s NYT ethicist column? <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/magazine/07FOB-ethicist-t.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/magazine/07FOB-ethicist-t.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Are you really better off, Gay America? by Leo</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/03/are-you-really-better-off-gay-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1254</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 06:13:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1732#comment-1254</guid>
		<description>1 John 4:8 says that God is love.  There is no denying the importance of God or love, presumably the source of all good things.  I am just saying that government should stay out of the love business, just as it should stay out of the religion business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1 John 4:8 says that God is love.  There is no denying the importance of God or love, presumably the source of all good things.  I am just saying that government should stay out of the love business, just as it should stay out of the religion business.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are you really better off, Gay America? by nerdygirl</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/03/are-you-really-better-off-gay-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1253</link>
		<dc:creator>nerdygirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 00:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1732#comment-1253</guid>
		<description>Marty and in case you didn&#039;t notice I also said that every child should have access or at the very least information to their birth parents.  There is no reason why they can&#039;t have that and still be raised by their adoptive parents. There is no reason why these children can&#039;t have successful lives, but as someone with single parent and step-parent upbringings, I&#039;m quite tired of hearing everyone  prattle on and on about the importance of biological fatherhood.  Yes it&#039;s important, but I am no less of a person because he wasn&#039;t around, and neither is anyone else from a non-traditional home.  Who raises the child isn&#039;t near as important as HOW the child is raised.  

Love is the beginning cause of duty, honor, sacrifice and respect.  Where else could these qualities come from if not love?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marty and in case you didn&#8217;t notice I also said that every child should have access or at the very least information to their birth parents.  There is no reason why they can&#8217;t have that and still be raised by their adoptive parents. There is no reason why these children can&#8217;t have successful lives, but as someone with single parent and step-parent upbringings, I&#8217;m quite tired of hearing everyone  prattle on and on about the importance of biological fatherhood.  Yes it&#8217;s important, but I am no less of a person because he wasn&#8217;t around, and neither is anyone else from a non-traditional home.  Who raises the child isn&#8217;t near as important as HOW the child is raised.  </p>
<p>Love is the beginning cause of duty, honor, sacrifice and respect.  Where else could these qualities come from if not love?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Language Control is thought control by Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/05/language-control-is-thought-control/comment-page-1/#comment-1246</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 02:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1748#comment-1246</guid>
		<description>I posted more about birth certificates on the Proudparenting blog: http://www.proudparenting.com/node/3377

See - Donor conceived perspectives &quot;Birth Certificates&quot;:
http://donorconceived.blogspot.com/2009/08/birth-certificates.html

Thursday, August 13, 2009
Birth Certificates
Posted by damianhadams

&quot;There is a lot of debate in fertility “circles” about birth certificates and many court cases whereby one or both of commissioning parents seek to have their names put on a birth certificate where otherwise it would have another persons name on it under law.

Rather than address the legal status of each person in relation to the child and their place or lack thereof on a birth certificate I wish to analyse what a birth certificate actually is and what should occur as a result.

A birth certificate is supposed to be a truthful and legal document which describes the progenitors of a child. It is a pedigree that traces our genealogy. It is our heritage. Historically the progenitors of a child were always the raising parents which were traditionally married or in a de-facto relationship. So the people that raised you were also your biological father/mother and appeared on your birth certificate as such. The problem now is that because your biological parents may not be the ones that raise you due to some fertility treatment procedure, the birth certificates can become a fraudulent document when a non-progenitor is placed on it instead.

Just as we use pedigree papers to trace the biological lineage of animals such as dogs, cats, horses etc, we can and do use birth certificates for the same purpose in humans. Historians and genealogists use them to trace a person’s heritage and history. If we replace a progenitor on a birth certificate with a social parent then we create false history and the truth becomes clouded by lies. We are rewriting history with erroneous claims.

It would appear as though the non-biological parent who seeks inclusion on the birth certificate or replacement of the biological parent does so out of fear that the child will then not recognise them as their dad/mum. There is no evidence to suggest that this is the case. There is too much emotion placed on a birth certificate when none should be placed on it at all. It is purely a document describing the genetic history of each person, it has absolutely nothing to do with who raises or loves you. They can be two entirely separate things and should be kept separate when it comes to creating a birth certificate.

Those who are a party to a fertility treatment and subsequent rearing of child but are not the progenitors can still be recognised as the legal parent of the child without having to be on the birth certificate. It is time we recognised the truth and recorded the facts on birth certificates rather than play deceitful games with fraudulent documents. It is up to each country/state to decide if they also wish to include the social/non-biological parent AS WELL on the birth certificate, or to create additional documentation detailing the legal parenthood of each child. What they should not be doing is usurping the truth.

My birth certificate is a lie and not worth the piece of paper it is written on, is yours?&quot;

------------------

MY NOTE:
While Damian is from Australia and I am from the United States, the purpose of &quot;birth certificates&quot; is really a global human dignity/social issue that we all share regardless of our country of origin. Of course each country handles this differently. I heard in the UK there are both long (noting legal parents names, name of child/individual, gender, date/place of birth and registration) and a short BC (only noting name, gender, date/place of birth and registration). And in Canada, birth certificates only show details of an individual&#039;s birth without any parenting details.

I certainly don&#039;t claim to be very knowledgeable on this topic but this is what I&#039;d like to see happen (here in the US – and everywhere):

I think there should be both a long birth certificate noting both a person&#039;s genetic/biological origins (there by respecting an individuals right to genetic/biological identity) and parenting details AND a separate short &quot;parenting certificate&quot; stating only the legal parents, which would be used for every day and legal purposes.

From what I understand, in the US, BC&#039;s are handled on a state by state basis (I&#039;m not sure about this and really question if that even makes sense)...If that is the case, I would like to BC&#039;s done in a consistent manner - federally regulated/mandated but I think that this currently falls under family law which is state regulated.

Any lawyers out there reading who might like to help shed light on this????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted more about birth certificates on the Proudparenting blog: <a href="http://www.proudparenting.com/node/3377" rel="nofollow">http://www.proudparenting.com/node/3377</a></p>
<p>See &#8211; Donor conceived perspectives &#8220;Birth Certificates&#8221;:<br />
<a href="http://donorconceived.blogspot.com/2009/08/birth-certificates.html" rel="nofollow">http://donorconceived.blogspot.com/2009/08/birth-certificates.html</a></p>
<p>Thursday, August 13, 2009<br />
Birth Certificates<br />
Posted by damianhadams</p>
<p>&#8220;There is a lot of debate in fertility “circles” about birth certificates and many court cases whereby one or both of commissioning parents seek to have their names put on a birth certificate where otherwise it would have another persons name on it under law.</p>
<p>Rather than address the legal status of each person in relation to the child and their place or lack thereof on a birth certificate I wish to analyse what a birth certificate actually is and what should occur as a result.</p>
<p>A birth certificate is supposed to be a truthful and legal document which describes the progenitors of a child. It is a pedigree that traces our genealogy. It is our heritage. Historically the progenitors of a child were always the raising parents which were traditionally married or in a de-facto relationship. So the people that raised you were also your biological father/mother and appeared on your birth certificate as such. The problem now is that because your biological parents may not be the ones that raise you due to some fertility treatment procedure, the birth certificates can become a fraudulent document when a non-progenitor is placed on it instead.</p>
<p>Just as we use pedigree papers to trace the biological lineage of animals such as dogs, cats, horses etc, we can and do use birth certificates for the same purpose in humans. Historians and genealogists use them to trace a person’s heritage and history. If we replace a progenitor on a birth certificate with a social parent then we create false history and the truth becomes clouded by lies. We are rewriting history with erroneous claims.</p>
<p>It would appear as though the non-biological parent who seeks inclusion on the birth certificate or replacement of the biological parent does so out of fear that the child will then not recognise them as their dad/mum. There is no evidence to suggest that this is the case. There is too much emotion placed on a birth certificate when none should be placed on it at all. It is purely a document describing the genetic history of each person, it has absolutely nothing to do with who raises or loves you. They can be two entirely separate things and should be kept separate when it comes to creating a birth certificate.</p>
<p>Those who are a party to a fertility treatment and subsequent rearing of child but are not the progenitors can still be recognised as the legal parent of the child without having to be on the birth certificate. It is time we recognised the truth and recorded the facts on birth certificates rather than play deceitful games with fraudulent documents. It is up to each country/state to decide if they also wish to include the social/non-biological parent AS WELL on the birth certificate, or to create additional documentation detailing the legal parenthood of each child. What they should not be doing is usurping the truth.</p>
<p>My birth certificate is a lie and not worth the piece of paper it is written on, is yours?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>MY NOTE:<br />
While Damian is from Australia and I am from the United States, the purpose of &#8220;birth certificates&#8221; is really a global human dignity/social issue that we all share regardless of our country of origin. Of course each country handles this differently. I heard in the UK there are both long (noting legal parents names, name of child/individual, gender, date/place of birth and registration) and a short BC (only noting name, gender, date/place of birth and registration). And in Canada, birth certificates only show details of an individual&#8217;s birth without any parenting details.</p>
<p>I certainly don&#8217;t claim to be very knowledgeable on this topic but this is what I&#8217;d like to see happen (here in the US – and everywhere):</p>
<p>I think there should be both a long birth certificate noting both a person&#8217;s genetic/biological origins (there by respecting an individuals right to genetic/biological identity) and parenting details AND a separate short &#8220;parenting certificate&#8221; stating only the legal parents, which would be used for every day and legal purposes.</p>
<p>From what I understand, in the US, BC&#8217;s are handled on a state by state basis (I&#8217;m not sure about this and really question if that even makes sense)&#8230;If that is the case, I would like to BC&#8217;s done in a consistent manner &#8211; federally regulated/mandated but I think that this currently falls under family law which is state regulated.</p>
<p>Any lawyers out there reading who might like to help shed light on this????</p>
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		<title>Comment on Language Control is thought control by Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/05/language-control-is-thought-control/comment-page-1/#comment-1245</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 02:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1748#comment-1245</guid>
		<description>I think this is an even bigger issue related to birth certificates.  Julie Shapiro blogs about it here: http://julieshapiro.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/an-observation-about-birth-certificates/
------------------
She suggests:
&quot;I can imagine a system where one document records the date/place of birth and perhaps also the identity of the woman who gives birth to the child.   All of these seem to me to be historical facts.  They could be recorded in a permanent and unchanging record.   

Then I could imagine a second piece of paper which recorded the legal parentage of the child.   That could be reissued if the identity of the legal parents changed.  (I’m fuzzy on a lot of details, like whether state 2 could issue a new certificate upon completion of adoption where the original certificate had been issued in state 1, but nevermind that for now.) &quot;

------------
But she does not mention preserving the father&#039;s name/identity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is an even bigger issue related to birth certificates.  Julie Shapiro blogs about it here: <a href="http://julieshapiro.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/an-observation-about-birth-certificates/" rel="nofollow">http://julieshapiro.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/an-observation-about-birth-certificates/</a><br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
She suggests:<br />
&#8220;I can imagine a system where one document records the date/place of birth and perhaps also the identity of the woman who gives birth to the child.   All of these seem to me to be historical facts.  They could be recorded in a permanent and unchanging record.   </p>
<p>Then I could imagine a second piece of paper which recorded the legal parentage of the child.   That could be reissued if the identity of the legal parents changed.  (I’m fuzzy on a lot of details, like whether state 2 could issue a new certificate upon completion of adoption where the original certificate had been issued in state 1, but nevermind that for now.) &#8221;</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
But she does not mention preserving the father&#8217;s name/identity.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are you really better off, Gay America? by Marty</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/03/are-you-really-better-off-gay-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1244</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 20:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1732#comment-1244</guid>
		<description>nerdygirl, I hope you whistle when you walk by the family graveyard.  It&#039;s easy to say that love keeps a family together, or that you or anyone else doesn&#039;t need a mother or a father or aunts and uncles &amp; babies with their grandmother&#039;s eyes...  But these things are a birthright of every child, barring tragedy. They are of a priceless value, and are not so much bound by love, as by duty and honor, sacrifice and respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nerdygirl, I hope you whistle when you walk by the family graveyard.  It&#8217;s easy to say that love keeps a family together, or that you or anyone else doesn&#8217;t need a mother or a father or aunts and uncles &amp; babies with their grandmother&#8217;s eyes&#8230;  But these things are a birthright of every child, barring tragedy. They are of a priceless value, and are not so much bound by love, as by duty and honor, sacrifice and respect.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are you really better off, Gay America? by Leo</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/03/are-you-really-better-off-gay-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1243</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 19:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1732#comment-1243</guid>
		<description>Re statehood for D.C. I believe that if Washington, D.C. were a state with actual sovereignty, its citizens would become more involved and ultimately produce better governance.  In any event, I favor democracy for D.C. on general grounds (“the consent of the governed’).  

Re love. Love is a wonderful thing, but can be quite unrelated to families and is not limited to couples.  The government can’t legislate love, can’t measure it, can’t tax it, and shouldn’t intervene in it.  For government to be in the love business is for government to be in the thought control business.  

Re access to information on biological parents.  This is a tough issue.  Biology may or may not be destiny, but it is a very important part of it.  We deny that at our peril.  Access to information is generally a good thing, but there are serious privacy rights involved and commitments once made for confidentiality should not be broken without mutual consent or a very compelling reason to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re statehood for D.C. I believe that if Washington, D.C. were a state with actual sovereignty, its citizens would become more involved and ultimately produce better governance.  In any event, I favor democracy for D.C. on general grounds (“the consent of the governed’).  </p>
<p>Re love. Love is a wonderful thing, but can be quite unrelated to families and is not limited to couples.  The government can’t legislate love, can’t measure it, can’t tax it, and shouldn’t intervene in it.  For government to be in the love business is for government to be in the thought control business.  </p>
<p>Re access to information on biological parents.  This is a tough issue.  Biology may or may not be destiny, but it is a very important part of it.  We deny that at our peril.  Access to information is generally a good thing, but there are serious privacy rights involved and commitments once made for confidentiality should not be broken without mutual consent or a very compelling reason to do so.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Judge rules against religious expression by Betsy</title>
		<link>http://www.ruthblog.org/2010/03/03/judge-rules-against-religious-expression/comment-page-1/#comment-1240</link>
		<dc:creator>Betsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 02:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ruthblog.org/?p=1727#comment-1240</guid>
		<description>Haha! Yes, thank you, Wes. And good point! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha! Yes, thank you, Wes. And good point! <img src='http://www.ruthblog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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